Ep. 263: Why You Matter

Speaker 1:

Welcome to the indoubt podcast, where we explore the challenging topics that young adults often face. Each week, we talk with guests who help answer questions of faith, life, and culture, connecting them to our daily experiences and God’s word. For more info on indoubt visit indoubt.ca or indoubt.com.

Isaac Dagneau:

Hey, welcome to indoubt. My name is Isaac, I’m one of the hosts of indoubt and I’m also pastor at North Valley Baptist Church in Mission, British Columbia in Canada. With us from many kilometers, not miles away in Georgia is pastor, speaker, author, and teacher, Michael Sherrard. Thanks so much for being with us today, Michael.

Michael Sherrard:

Oh, it’s my pleasure. Thank you.

Isaac Dagneau:

Before we jump into our conversation, and this goes for basically every interview and stuff like that, we just want to hear a little bit about who you are just before you start telling us things and explaining things. We’d love to put a life behind the voice. So yeah, who are you? How’d you come to know Jesus? What does your life look like right now? Yeah, just let us know.

Michael Sherrard:

Well, what my life looks like right now is a mess like everybody else’s, I’m sure. It’s crazy. I’m a pastor too like yourself, and the kinds of things that we’ve had to face as a pastor over this last year, it’s been wild, and of course everybody, I don’t mean to say that the pastor’s life is woe is us, but the challenges that we have faced are quite unique. Just from structural, what does it mean to be the body of Christ during this time? What does it look like to gather? What happens when we can’t gather the way that people are suffering from psychological distress this year? I’ve had more conversations about people dealing with severe anxiety, depression, having suicidal thoughts for the first time in their life, people who in their past had cutting, where you would just cut your arms or wrists who had not been afflicted by this condition for years, it coming back.

Michael Sherrard:

So this year has been just a trial on us all. And the unique ways that us pastors have faced it is something. So I’m tired, man. I am tired. My wife is tired, but of course in the midst of it, we’ve seen God’s grace and he comforts us in our affliction so that we can comfort others in their afflictions. So I’m a pastor, I’m a husband, I’ve got five kids. Every time I go home, I expect there only to be maybe four, and that’s because we lost one, they did something crazy or my wife just said, “You didn’t make the cut today, you’re out of here.” But it’s great. My wife, Terri, she’s Wonder Woman, she really is. She’s something else. We’ve been married for 16 years. I think the only thing that saves me there is if I’m wrong, she doesn’t know either. She’s just as bad about that-

Isaac Dagneau:

That’s good, saving grace.

Michael Sherrard:

… as I am, so we were made for each other in that sense. But yeah, I’ve been a pastor now for about 10 years at Crosspoint where I’m at, a couple books out there, got some education you can find online, and working on my dissertation right now. And I have known Jesus my entire life, I don’t remember a time where I did not believe that Jesus Christ was my savior. Grew up in a great family that faithfully taught the word, lived out the word. So Christianity was not a cultural thing for us, it was just real. Jesus was Lord, I saw that in my parents. When I say I don’t remember, I don’t have a moment where I go, “That’s when I gave my life to Christ.”

Michael Sherrard:

I just have always been a follower of Jesus, that’s all I know. Now there was probably some time within there where things became more real. When you’re a child, you largely believed the things that your parents teach you. And at some point this becomes your own faith, but for me it was gradual. I don’t remember a single moment. But the fruit of the spirit is certainly in my life, I’m filled with the Holy Spirit and grateful for my testimony. It’s funny, growing up I was like, “I wish I had that crazy testimony where I was running the streets, dealing dope, and then the Lord saved me when I was about to do something really crazy.” And praise the Lord for those kinds of testimonies, but also praise the Lord for the faithful testimony of a mom and a dad who raised their children in the way that they should go and their children reap the fruit of that.

Isaac Dagneau:

Yeah. No, I so appreciate that, Michael. And I feel like… I’ve just heard a few other testimonies recently with a similar testimony and I just think that’s so refreshing, and I think it’s really encouraging. My wife and I, we just have two young kids and it’s just really refreshing to hear testimonies like yourselves of someone who has known Jesus all their lives because of the faithfulness and the lifestyle of Christianity that the parents lived, that gives my wife and I hope to say, “Okay, right now our toddler is the most pagan little kid in the world right now, but there is hope if we continue-

Michael Sherrard:

There is hope.

Isaac Dagneau:

There is hope. Yeah. So, I appreciate your testimony and praise God for that. That’s so good. And also, I just want to say thank you for just your honesty about just where you’re at right now. I think that’s really refreshing. And I think for most people, especially in adults, to hear someone that is titled as a teacher or a pastor to hear their honesty and vulnerability say, “Yeah, this is really hard right now and it’s messy,” is really refreshing. So I appreciate that, I’m sure that many appreciate that too, yeah.

Michael Sherrard:

Thanks. It’s hard to know, because you always have to prayerfully consider why am I sharing about the hardship in my life. Am I sharing about the hardship my life because I know it’s going to connect on an interview? Am I sharing about hardship because… What’s the reason for sharing about hardship? And for good or for bad, why talk about your success, why talk about your failure, why talk about your joy, why talk about your hardship? We always have to be continually reflecting. Am I doing this for the glory of God and the good of others? Or am I doing it just to make much of myself? But no, I appreciate you sharing that. And yeah, I do hope that it’s encouraging to others.

Isaac Dagneau:

Absolutely. And I think you just opened up a whole other interview conversation about motivations and [crosstalk 00:06:30].

Michael Sherrard:

Let’s do it, man. Let’s do it.

Isaac Dagneau:

Maybe we’ll do that later. Let’s do it later.

Michael Sherrard:

Okay.

Isaac Dagneau:

Anyways, yeah. You’ve written a book. You wrote last year, which is quite a year to write a book.

Michael Sherrard:

I know, right?

Isaac Dagneau:

Yeah, it’s crazy. It’s titled, and this is for our listeners here, the book that Michael Sherrard has written is called, Why You Matter: How Your Quest for Meaning Is Meaningless Without God. So, as a way to maybe just begin and propel us into our conversation, what are some of the life circumstances, whether they were personal in your own heart, whether they’re just what you see in the world around you, what are some of the life circumstances that compelled you, that was like, “I got to write a book on the meaningfulness of human life,” why answer that question right now?

Michael Sherrard:

Yeah. So the title would certainly, or it might give the impression that this book was written quickly in reaction to what’s happening in the world right now, in the world of Black Lives Matter, Blue Lives Matter, All Lives Matter. It might seem like this book was written in response to that, and it wasn’t. I mean, it was written in the midst of all of this, but the idea came many years ago actually. And I was just speaking at a conference in the Northeast here yesterday actually. And I somewhat joked and said, “I think the Lord let me write this book just so that I could endure the life that I’m living right now.” And so there was some of this book that was almost prophetic for myself, and the Lord allowed me to write it so that I could live it out in a sense, and it become an anchor for me and my family during this time.

Michael Sherrard:

And it really has this, this topic is such an important topic. It’s a foundational topic that if you get it right, it can sustain you through hardship and allow you to experience joy. And if you get it wrong though, you get a number of other really important ideas wrong, but maybe I’m getting ahead of myself. So, maybe three, four years ago, I think the idea for this book came because I was sitting in a Sunday school class or a Bible study, and I noticed that, I forget what the exact topic was, but what became pretty obvious to me was that everyone in this room was thinking in a, “I am that which I do,” category, which is an entirely secular way to conceive of what it is to be human and what makes us valuable.

Michael Sherrard:

And as the conversation went on and a couple of questions were asked, or I would even ask a question, it just seemed like the concept of being made in God’s image was entirely lost. And these were people, my friends, people that you grow up in church with that are faithful to church, not new converts. And so, that was like a first experience where the Lord maybe turned me on to this idea, how much has the church forgotten this simple and important concept of being made in God’s image and to what degree has the church been influenced by secular thinking as it relates to what makes life meaningful? So I shortly began taking opportunities when I could to speak on this topic and to just see where are people at with this? Am I connecting? Am I assuming something wrong here?

Michael Sherrard:

And one of my initial experiences soon thereafter was, I was invited to speak at a graduation commencement ceremony. And this was at, not a Christian institution, so the audience was comprised of a true representation of the public, if you will. So I give just the 15-minute speech that talks about what makes life valuable and worth living. And the response that I got from this cued me in a, “Okay yes, there’s something here.” This idea is important, it’s relevant to Christians who should know that they are made in God’s image and what that means, but it’s also connecting with a secular world that is burdened with trying to create meaning and value for themselves. And so that was kind of the start of the idea. And then over the course of a couple of years, really, the Lord began to shape it, such that I think maybe two and a half years or so ago now, when I was asked if there was a book I wanted to write, this was the one I pitched.

Isaac Dagneau:

Yeah. No, that’s so good. So maybe what we can do, you’ve mentioned just in passing now, the importance of the truth that we are made in the image of God, let’s develop that, let’s just get right to the core of this whole thing. It can be just a phrase that’s used in Christian circles, like justification, whatever, Jesus loves me, died on the cross for my sins. These are huge topics with a massive reality that really hold us up in our Christian faith. So image of God, we are made in the image of God. Talk about that, what is that, help us understand?

Michael Sherrard:

Well, it’s somewhat of an ambiguous term and we have to be careful about going further than scripture will allow us to go. The phrase made in the image and likeness of God only occurs three times in the Old Testament. It’s all in Genesis too, Genesis 1:26-28, where it says that God made man in the image and likeness of God, Genesis 5:2 where it says this. And then also in Genesis 9:6, and it’s in the context of why we should not shed innocent blood because man is made in the image of God. So the phrase image and likeness are… The Hebrew words are tselem and demuth, and respectively they’re translated as image and likeness.

Michael Sherrard:

Now there is debate amongst Hebrew and Old Testament scholars as it relates to how distinct these words are. Do they each describe something very meaningfully different from each other, or are they used interchangeably to describe an ambiguous concept as it relates to human nature and what it is? I’m in the camp that thinks that image and likeness are really more interchangeable rather than holding distinct meanings, but whichever way you go, and there’s good reason to be in either camp I guess, what we do know about what this means is it shows the unique way human beings relate to God and reflect His glory.

Michael Sherrard:

It is an ontological reality about what we are that is the source of our significance and our value. So, what’s the big deal with being made in God’s image, whatever? This is also what you draw out of Genesis 9:6, “We are valuable because of what we are, not what we do.” As image bearers of God, our value is intrinsic. And that is a game-changing idea that maybe we’ll flesh out what I don’t want to get too far ahead. So, as it relates to the image of God, I think that there has to be left a certain ambiguity to the concept because the Bible does not explicitly show what it means, but what is clear from scripture, I think is powerful and important enough because of what we are, we are valuable and we have a unique relationship to God distinct from the rest of creation. And there is something unique about us that reflects God’s glory in a way distinct from the rest of creation.

Michael Sherrard:

And there may be more to what it means to be made in the image of God, but there is not less. And even that essential understanding of the Imago Dei is a powerful idea that shapes much of our experience in life and Christian thought.

Isaac Dagneau:

Yeah, absolutely. So, you talk about the fact that being made in the image of God, is who we are, there’s something in us that reflects the glory of God, does that then also speak to our purpose to reflect God’s glory? So I guess the question would be, what does that look like, what does that mean? Because again, glory of God, that’s a very big term. So what does that mean?

Michael Sherrard:

Right. So again, it depends on… And there’s different camps here, or different views. Some people think that the image of God is functional in nature, that what it is to be made in the image of God relates to a function that humans perform, and that function primarily being having dominion over the earth. I don’t think that’s the case. I adopt more of, I guess, a structural view, which relates to what humans are. And as image bearers, we have a function, but the primary understanding of being made in God’s image isn’t a function, but you can understand why this gets a little bit perhaps messy, but here’s how I would articulate the view, and this again, comes from Genesis, “As image bearers of God, we have been given the calling to have dominion over the earth. We are to rule this earth in God’s stead, under His leadership, providing care and creativity for the world that He has made.”

Michael Sherrard:

So you’re right, our purpose is attached to our image-bearing nature, but I don’t think it’s one in the same. I don’t think to be an image bearer is to do this. No, an image bearer is one that has this ontological reality that we are made in God’s image. As image bearers, we are called to have dominion over the earth. And this is important because what this means is that human beings are intrinsically valuable. It means we’re valuable in and of ourselves for what we are, but it also means that we have objective purpose and there is inherent meaning to life. God made us on purpose for a purpose. So our actions are very meaningful and they can correspond to the world in which God has made, either in a good way or a bad way. So in other words, to say, there is an objective standard that we can measure our actions which allows them to be truly meaningful in every way.

Isaac Dagneau:

Yeah. That’s so good. And I so appreciate. I think this is important for all of us to hear, including our listeners, that this image of God reality identity is intrinsic. It’s not like, as I carefully and creatively have dominion over the world, then I achieve the-

Michael Sherrard:

Become, right.

Isaac Dagneau:

Become the image of God. I think it’s so important that it flows out that.

Michael Sherrard:

And it’s our sin. And so, if you adopt this understanding of that the image of God is structural in nature, it relates to what we are, our ontology. And as image bearers of God, now we have been given a task of God to do. This helps us to make sense of the way sin affects it. So, the question becomes, does sin mar the image of God? Well okay, again, the question is what does the image of God mean? As a structuralist view, I don’t think sin mars the image of God, meaning that remains intact, but sin does burden us and affect our ability to live as image bearers, and fulfill the calling god has given us. It affects our relationships, it affects our ability to honor God in what we do as we have dominion over this earth. And it affects our ability to love God and love what we should. So sin, again, it’s just, you have to define terms, what does one mean by saying sin mars the image of God?

Michael Sherrard:

I don’t think that our sin somehow diminishes the image of God within us, or it takes it away or lessens. It simply prevents us from living as image bearers in the way that God had intended for us to live.

Isaac Dagneau:

Right. That’s so important. You can tell me this is a good illustration or not, but in basing the value and the dignity of a person in their intrinsic image of Godness, that does not change from sin, changing the structural reality of them being made an image of God. If you think of the most cruel person, the cruelest person, that just evil, wicked, and someone who’s very good and just is living out the glory of God, if I murdered both of them, God would be in a sense equally, emotionally burdened by the fact that His image would be… Would that be, just to show that the image of God is valuable in both right, reality in both?

Michael Sherrard:

You’re exactly right. The image of God does not go away because of one’s sin, neither do you get more of it because of your righteousness. And here’s where we can really quickly jump out of the theoretical and theological and get practical, right? What this means for everyone listening to this is there is nothing you have ever done that has made you more valuable or less valuable. We are equally valuable as image bearers who are loved by God. So again, this image bearing isn’t in this cold, detached vacuous space. No, it’s in the context of love. There’s no greater love than that has seen than one that would give his life for his friends. Romans 5 talks about, “While we were still His enemies, Christ died for us.” So even there, while we were His enemies. So here’s this, going back to our status with God as image bearers, we are valuable and we are loved by Him and not on the basis of what we do.

Michael Sherrard:

So this is a really freeing idea, especially for Christians, because we’re influenced by a world that does not believe in God, and value there is acquired, it’s not intrinsic. And so many people are saddled by this. They hold up some standard and they go, “I don’t measure up to this standard.” And they feel bad about their lives and their value. Or they’ve succeeded and now they’re struggling with arrogance, because they have met these. So understanding that our significance rests in what we are rather than what we do is this great leveling idea that brings humility to the proud and hope to the desperate.

Isaac Dagneau:

Yeah, that’s so good. You’re answering a question that I want to just… Maybe you can talk a little bit. In your introduction of your book, you write this quote, “Both Christians and atheists tend not to realize how much they borrow from each other’s worldviews.” And I thought that was a compelling idea. Maybe, I think you’d almost touched on it a little bit there, but maybe just explain that a little bit more, maybe uncover some, maybe some values that we as Christians and maybe our listeners, they hold to, that maybe they shouldn’t be holding.

Michael Sherrard:

So, for all the followers of Jesus Christ that are listening, that are struggling with, “What am I worth?” And this is a common struggle. There’s nothing fundamentally wrong with you more than anybody else. This is a very common struggle that everybody goes through. So those of us out there that are struggling with insecurity and doubt, just feeling like my life isn’t measuring up, that’s the question? What is your standard? What are you measuring up against? Is it your achievements? Is it your intelligence? Your relationships? What is that you don’t have that makes you feel like your life isn’t worth anything? You’re borrowing from an atheistic worldview there, because in an atheistic worldview, life is functionally valuable, perhaps it’s inherently meaningless. So whatever value or meaning your life has, you have to create it. And then even as you create it, you’re using some standard to judge if you’ve succeeded. What standard is that? Is it other people? Is it society’s expectations? Is it your own? So whatever standard you’re using and then saying, “I’m not measuring up to,” this whole process has its origin in a naturalistic and an atheistic worldview.

Michael Sherrard:

You as a Christian, your heritage is you’re made in God’s image, your value is fixed, your identity is rooted in what you are, not what you do. And there’s your words. So that’s where again, Christians are borrowing if you will, or functionally living as atheists. Well, the way atheists do it in a sense, is they operate as if there is transcendent meaning to life, that there is a real right and a real wrong, that their actions actually correspond to something of greater significance than merely their own personal preferences or the preferences of a group of people, even if that group is your entire country, you’re acting as if that your actions matter in some kind of transcendent way.

Michael Sherrard:

That can only be if God exists. And just maybe tell a quick story, and if I’m getting long, cut me off. But I met a young lady after one of my lectures on this topic. And she comes up to me and she says, “Hey, man, I’m tracking with you.” And I’m paraphrasing a bit here, but this is the truthful, accurate representation though, I’m going to be using a bit of my words here and some of her words. So she’s not a follower of Jesus Christ, she’s an atheist. And she says, “Okay. So I hear you. On one hand, I agree even with what you’ve said, that if God does not exist, life is inherently meaningless.” She said, “This is a freeing idea though to me, it’s very free.”

Michael Sherrard:

And she said, “Life can be so stressful. From the moment you can talk, people are asking you, ‘What do you want to be when you grow up in life?’ And they never stop asking that question. And it only gets worse, ‘Get good grades so you can get into a good school. Have you tried this sport? Join this club. Pick this cause. What’s your backup school?’ And the pressure just keeps going and going.” She said, “So the idea that there is no ultimate standard to the universe is a freeing idea because if there is no standard, I can not fail in this universe. Bake cookies, make millions, solve a social justice issue, or play video games in your parents’ basement for the rest of your life, it’s all the same. As long as it satisfies you and you don’t hurt somebody else, all life choices are equally meaningful.”

Michael Sherrard:

She said this is a freeing idea, but, and this is where it gets really interesting, she said, “On the other hand, it would be nice to know that my actions mattered in a way that has greater significance than simply satisfying my subjective preferences.” So she’s describing the tension of living in the freedom and the futility of a universe without any inherent meaning or purpose. And so, this is the challenge for Christians, is we know, or we believe, we say we believe, that human life is intrinsically valuable because of what we are, image bearers of God. We know that there is inherent purpose to life, which we can get into maybe in a second, but we live out of this assumption that we have to create meaning and create value for ourselves, and when we don’t, we suffer the psychological consequences of thinking, “My life’s not measuring up.”

Michael Sherrard:

So anyways, this is a way that atheists and Christians borrow from each other’s worldview. And it’s important actually for each of us to have a bit of intellectual honesty and to consider, “Am I living in what I really think is really real? Or am I operating out of a reality that I don’t think exists, either the one with God in it or the one without God in it?”

Isaac Dagneau:

Amazing. Yeah. No, that’s so helpful. So thank you, Michael, for sharing that. And you did it in a way that makes sense so I appreciate that. Let’s talk about joy for a moment, because you address joy in your book. So where do we find joy in our understanding of the meaning of our lives? And you also talk about fighting for that joy. So maybe just address that.

Michael Sherrard:

Yeah. I think joy is an abiding reality, which means it is something that you can possess that doesn’t really go away. So the joy of knowing Christ and being an adopted son or daughter of God, it’s a joy that doesn’t go away, but there are things that cover it up. So, I think again, joy is this abiding reality that is there for those who know what they were made for and are living in that reality. And living in that reality includes having your sins forgiven and being reunited to the creator of all of the universe. So in this kind of life where you have had your sins forgiven, you understand your value and your significance, you understand there is inherent meaning to life, and you have a clear understanding of what your God given purpose is, in fellowship with God, the Holy Spirit living within you, one of the fruits of this is joy.

Michael Sherrard:

But the things in this world, the brokenness in this world that we still are living in suppresses that joy. It’s almost like a wet blanket kind of thing, where it just begins to suffocate and snuff out that joy. So joy is something to be fought for, not just experienced. And that’s an important point to make, especially in the church, because sometimes there’s this pressure of, “If you’re not living a joy-filled happy life, there’s something wrong with you, you’re not a real Christian.” And then we trivialize it, like, “Sing louder, pray harder, read your Bible more. And then all this is going to go away.” And that’s just not the way that it is.

Michael Sherrard:

There are many things that come against us that suppress our joy, like, as I talk about in the book, “Misunderstanding our identity, upon the foundation of understanding the core of what we are, image bearers of God, how do I begin to make sense of my uniqueness? Misunderstanding who you are in that sense becomes this joy-stealing thing. Misunderstanding of not knowing your calling, how has my identity contributed to the unique way I’m to live out as my image-bearing nature in this world? What am I supposed to do? What kind of job am I supposed to have? What happens when my job’s not going right?”

Michael Sherrard:

That is another thing that suppresses our joy. Hardship is another one. And I talk a good bit about this in the book too, because the last two years, even unrelated to the pandemic, have been the most difficult years of me and my wife’s life. We’ve known sickness, we have a son with one of the rare genetic disorders on the face of the planet, we’ve had a dear friend commit suicide, we’ve experienced betrayal. And when you experience hardship, it steals joy because it causes you to question God’s goodness, “If God is good and God is for me, why is he letting me have this?”

Michael Sherrard:

But there is a reason for hardship. Understanding that reason helps you to experience even joy in the midst of it. So, on and on, I talk about a lot of these things in the book, because joy is something to be fought for because there is much in this world that still comes against us, but with the Spirit of God living within us, we can experience the fruit of joy in our lives, as we commit to a life of holiness and faithfully following the Lord, and working for it.

Isaac Dagneau:

Yeah. Amen. That’s so good. And maybe you just answered this last question here, we’ll wrap it up here, but as a young adult, male or female, middle-aged person, elderly person, picks up your book and makes their way through it, what is your hope and your prayer through the book and as they finish the book? What would give you the most joy to know what they’ve experienced?

Michael Sherrard:

My joy would be the personal peace and joy that comes to them by understanding what they are, how much God loves them, and that there is an inherently meaningful life for them to live out, not one free of hardship, but one even in which joy can be found in the midst of the hardship. I also hope it would help them make sense of what’s going on in culture. I think so much of the fighting today around issues of race and sexuality, and even more broadly speaking, politics and whatnot, pertain to what we think about why life matters in the first place. So, my hope is that from a position of health and understanding who you are as an image bearer of God, understanding this topic also allows you to make sense of what’s happening in this world so that you can more effectively love your neighbor in evangelism, but also in just arguing for what is true and what is good.

Michael Sherrard:

It’s interesting, when I set out to write this book, the initial conception of it, and even the pitch and the proposal was more abstract and theoretical, and just a worldview and apologetics in more of an abstract sense, but when I wrote the first sentence, and I wish I remember what that first sentence was, I don’t, but literally the first sentence I sat down to write in the book, I went, “Nope, this has got to change.” Because I had in my mind, the young man who had this book in his hands, and the reason he had this book in his hands is because he’s having a hard time getting up in the morning, and he’s thinking about not getting up the next morning.

Michael Sherrard:

And so it shifts, I like, “No, this has to be pastoral. This book has got to be pastoral. It’s got to help people with where they’re at on this issue.” So again, I don’t mean to make this a long-winded answer, but I hope that the person that reads this finds peace and joy in understanding who they are and what they were made for. And as an image bearer of God, I hope this book gives them clarity on how they’re to love their neighbor better.

Isaac Dagneau:

That’s so good, Michael. This would be the perfect place to end it, but as I asked that last question, I was just reminded of the importance of the gospel. And I think it’s so important we touch on this. If someone’s listening to this right now and they don’t know Christ, but there’s something inside of them that’s attracted to what you are saying in this intrinsic value, the image of God, I think it’s important that we both tell them they can’t just get up and do that right now, in a sense, but there needs to be this work of the gospel. So could you maybe just give one minute, just how the gospel fits into this and unleashes that reality, and then we’ll wrap it up?

Michael Sherrard:

Yes. You have been given an unimaginably valuable and meaningful life, we all have. And we all have used it wrongly. Rather than taking this unimaginably valuable and meaningful life and use it for the honor of God and the good of other people, we have used it to honor ourselves, and we have hurt other people in very meaningful ways. The consequence of this is not just relationally between one to another. It’s bad enough how we’ve hurt other people, but we have sinned against God, the one who made all things, we cannot help ourselves in the condition that we’re in. We are condemned, and rightfully so by how we have misused and abused how God has made us to be. The great news though, is that God will forgive us all freely, not because of what we do, but simply because we cry out to him in humility and say, “Father, forgive me.”

Michael Sherrard:

And we are forgiven because of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, who took the full penalty of our sin in our place. And we are acquitted in a sense, of all of our crimes and restored to fellowship with God on the basis of faith and what Jesus Christ has done. So, there may be some things to unpack there for the listener, reach out to a Christian if you know one, if not, reach out to the host of this show or reach out to me, and we would love to talk to you more about the gospel and what it means. It’s simple, and it’s also deeply rich. The heart of it is you can be forgiven of your sins by crying out to a merciful and just God who will forgive you of your sins.

Isaac Dagneau:

Amen. So good. That’s great. Well, this is wrapping up for real this time. So thanks again so much, Michael. We we’d love to have you back on the show again soon to talk about intentions and motivation.

Michael Sherrard:

Yeah, man.

Isaac Dagneau:

But anyways, thank you so much for being on the show with us today.

Michael Sherrard:

It’s a joy, man, you do a great job. Thanks, buddy.

Isaac Dagneau:

That was pastor, speaker and author, Michael Sherrard, talking with us about the importance of the fact that every person, no matter who they are, what they’ve done or what they believe is made in the image and likeness of God, and therefore are made with intrinsic meaning, value and purpose. He’s just written a new book all about this called, Why You Matter: How Your Quest for Meaning Is Meaningless Without God. You can go to whyyoumatterbook.com to learn more and get your copy. We hope you join us next week as Daniel speaks with Steve Brown on leadership. We’ll see you then.

Speaker 1:

Thanks so much for listening. If you want to hear more subscribe on iTunes or Spotify, or visit us online at indoubt.ca or indoubt.com. We’re also on social media, so make sure to follow us on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter.

Isaac Dagneau:

Hey, this is Isaac, one of the hosts of indoubt, a ministry of Good News Global Media. Is it possible that being a Christian young person could be any more complicated than it is today? How do we make right choices and decisions when so many opinions around us seem contrary to what it means to live for Christ? At indoubt, we hope to help make sense, biblical sense of those difficult choices, decisions, and the complexity of faith, life and culture in 2021. So, join us every week for another challenging conversation in our response as God’s people. For everything indoubt, visit indoubt.com. And if you’d like to help us continue to offer this program, you can make a gift of any amount at indoubt.com or by calling 1-844-663-2424.