Ep. 274: Women in the Bible

*Below is an edited transcription of the audio conversation.

Speaker 1:

Welcome to The indoubt Podcast, where we explore the challenging topics that young adults often face. Each week, we talk with guests who help answer questions of faith, life, and culture, connecting them to our daily experiences and God’s word. For more info on indoubt, visit indoubt.ca or indoubt.com

Daniel Markin:

Hey, this is Daniel Markin. Welcome back to indoubt. Thankful that you are joining us again for another discussion with Dr. Marina Hofman. Last time we had her on, we were discussing her car accident and how the Lord saw her through that. It was a horrific experience for her, traumatic and painful, but God was faithful and so gracious to her, and so we talked a lot about that, but on this episode, we’re going to be talking about some of where she gets a lot of inspiration, some of the work that she does in regards to women in the Bible, and so we’re going to be highlighting a few stories, stories that look at fear, anxiety, and ultimately, the hope that we have in Christ, the hope that we have in God. Hope you find this episode helpful. Enjoy.

Daniel Markin:

Hey, welcome to indoubt, this is Daniel Markin. I’m happy to be back today with Dr. Marina Hofman. If you remember, if you’ve been tuning in with us for a while here, you know that we had Marina as she shared the story about her car accident and being in that, her and her husband and their road to recovery. That episode, you can find it on indoubt. You can go to our website, you can hear all the background to that, and maybe if you’ve listened to this now on the podcast format, go back, find that episode, it’ll help bring some more stuff to clarity. But if you’re just tuning in on the radio here, keep listening because everything that you’re going to hear here is going to be valuable. But Marina, good to be back with you. How are you doing today?

Dr. Marina Hofman:

I’m good. I’m so excited to talk about these powerful stories of women in the Bible, their impact on my life, because I know they will be a real inspiration to your listeners today.

Daniel Markin:

Yeah, and I’m excited to hear about that, too, because I think it’s something that often we’ll talk about women in the Bible, but it’s many times, because there’s short stories, like Esther, which is a smaller book, for example, and they can disappear from the limelight. I think they’re really powerful, but we need to definitely spend time focusing on them, and so just before we begin talking about your work in these areas, because I know that you’ve written a book into this area, and also a book that is really helpful for those who are doing small groups, but could you just briefly share some of the work that you do these days? You got the word “doctor” in front of your name and so that’s not there by accident. Would you let us know, what are you doing these days? Are you teaching? Are you public speaking? What does that look like for you?

Dr. Marina Hofman:

I teach at Palm Beach Atlantic University and I work for a publishing company as an editor, so I get to use my skills in helping other authors develop their writing, and I write myself, whether it’s articles or scholarly articles, which can be a little bit more boring, but I really love writing for a popular audience, and of course, encouraging my students in-person at school.

Daniel Markin:

Mm-hmm (affirmative). With your students, this is a university, right? What ages are we …? Is this freshmen, or are you doing all over the place?

Dr. Marina Hofman:

Typically, 17 to 23.

Daniel Markin:

Wow, so what would you say, just out of curiosity, is the most exciting thing about teaching 17-year-olds and the most frustrating thing about teaching 17-year-olds?

Dr. Marina Hofman:

I would say that the most exciting thing is without a doubt, sharing my testimony with them and letting them know in many ways throughout the semester what God has done for me and I hope that it results in them believing what God can also do for them. Maybe the frustration I have sometimes is you see students and you can tell in their face maybe they’re not really listening, maybe they’re not really buying what you’re trying to sell.

Dr. Marina Hofman:

But to me, I like that challenge because it encourages me. If I feel I haven’t broken through with a student, then I just will say my testimony again because no one can deny the truth of our testimony and no one can tell us we’re wrong. We can debate truth in the Bible, we can debate it in detail, but no one can say that my story is wrong or that my belief is wrong because it’s my story and I own it, so I always have a listening ear when I share the goodness of God and the challenges that I faced because those are the challenges of life. How beautiful when we share and open ourselves up because it creates such beautiful bonds and relationships with others and opens up their art to share their own story as well.

Daniel Markin:

Mm-hmm (affirmative). Just briefly, your story was that of a significant car accident. Can you just give a quick one-minute recap of that?

Dr. Marina Hofman:

Yes, I was in a car wreck with really no chance of survival. God intervened in so many ways in the first 24 hours to save my life. But then I went on a long road of recovery to deal with anxiety and depression and PTSD and the lack of self-confidence and the fear of moving forward in my life. But day by day, God gave me courage and strength. It’s almost unbelievable how far I’ve come. I really will say that I never could have imagined that God would do all He did in my life. Sometimes God is dramatic and sometimes it takes a few years for us to realize all God has done, so I think there’s a beauty in trusting God in the day-to-day because we can never underestimate what God accomplishes in the day-to-day of our lives.

Daniel Markin:

Mm-hmm (affirmative). Thinking about your story and then thinking about stories of different women in the Bible, what are some of the stories that …? Because you were talking about women in the Bible, can you share a story in the Bible that reflects the kind of suffering that you also experienced, and then how that story ministered to you? I just love to hear some of your insights into this.

Dr. Marina Hofman:

Yes. When I came to this story of Hagar in Genesis 16, I resonated with it so strongly. Here’s a woman that’s often overshadowed by Abraham and Sarah, names we know well, but her story is powerful. She’s pregnant, she runs away. She finds herself in the wilderness alone and there’s a real sense that she is unprepared and has no plan, and so in this lowest point of her life, this moment of desperation, and literally a life-and-death situation, she encounters God powerfully and personally. In that moment, God gives her value, bestows a worth on her, calls her by name, and gives her hope for a future.

Dr. Marina Hofman:

I love the dichotomy that she goes back to the family of Abraham and Sarah and her hardship and her struggle. She returns to that, and yet I believe she returns a different person because she now has a hope for the future and she knows that whatever her future holds, God has seen her, God is with her, and God has a beautiful plan for her and the life of her unborn child. What incredible comfort to me, what hope to me, because that’s where I was. I could not see the future, I felt very alone, I was at the lowest point of my life, and just the encouragement to go through my suffering and to keep moving forward, knowing that God sees me in God has a purpose and plan for my life, even if I don’t know what that is in detail, I can trust God.

Daniel Markin:

Absolutely. With Hagar in this story, too, was this something that you had thought before your accident, or is this something that you began to identify with afterwards?

Dr. Marina Hofman:

I definitely appreciated her story so much before and I had written articles on her story, but after my accident, I think I resonated with her desperation and sense of aloneness and sense of hopelessness without that intervention in a whole new way. It’s beautiful to say that God sees us and God knows our name, but the greater we suffer, perhaps the more meaningful that really becomes in our lives.

Daniel Markin:

Mm-hmm (affirmative). It occurs to me that, too, in times like this, right, people give in to a lot of fear. I think right now, just the whole COVID thing, there’s just been a lot of fear. I don’t know if the media has necessarily helped that, I think it’s been stirring up a lot of fear and even just the way that bold texts on a news story communicates something that is everything is wrong, everything is being destroyed, right? I think there’s a deep-seated fear that’s existing today. As we talk about women in the Bible, what’s one story of a woman and this idea of fear, overcoming fear, facing fears? What was one that really stood out to you? Then on that, what is one particular aspect of this story that a lot of people actually aren’t familiar with?

Dr. Marina Hofman:

Well, the background you give to the uncertainty and sense of fear in society right now really inspired me to include the story of the midwives in my Bible study. I know that studying their life has given me such a strength. Their situation is so much like ours today. They are just living their life, doing their job, and suddenly, everything changes for them when the king asks them to stop their job and to take every baby who’s born male and to kill it. I think that total fear and total sense of loss when life changes so dramatically and we don’t know how to move forward is something we can all resonate with right now.

Dr. Marina Hofman:

What do the midwives do? Do they follow the king and kill these baby boys against everything in their nature, or do they defy the king at the risk of their own life and keep doing what they know is right? A horrible place to be in. I can’t imagine the fear that they feel, the anxiety they feel with every new baby born, and yet, what do they do? They trust God and they keep doing what God has called them to and they keep bringing these babies safely into the world. Of course, they don’t kill them. They find a clever way to stand up to the King of Egypt.

Dr. Marina Hofman:

Through their simple decision to keep going forward and to keep doing their mission from God to bring life, God does something extraordinary because the king is silenced and the whole generation of males is not killed but is saved. I know, Daniel, what you’re going to say, one of the people saved is Moses, of course, and now we all say, “Oh, yes, we know about Moses,” so what a beautiful little hidden story of these midwives who face so many of the fears we face today. Their courage leads the way for the life of Moses. Beautiful.

Daniel Markin:

Absolutely. It’s in this sense, too, with this, there’s the law of the king and there’s the law of God. With that, in the end, as Christians, we actually live in the kingdom of God. We operate as ambassadors of the kingdom of God, and so when our society is telling us to do something that actually goes against the kingdom of God, our allegiances to Christ, our allegiances to the kingdom of God, to Christ who rules over all the kingdoms, and so we’re to actually, carefully, cleverly resist in that sense. That’s an example of that, right, is in that place of fear, there’s still a trust in God and a sense of we have to do something about this, and so they resisted. I think this is a super interesting and super unique story that helps speak to this idea of fear. Has this story emboldened you and given you more courage?

Dr. Marina Hofman:

Absolutely. Daniel, we can relate stories like this to doing something incredible for God bigger than life, but that’s not me. I have a simple life. I’m a mom. As I opened up the last segment, I’m a mom, a wife, a teacher, so my day-to-day can be very ordinary. When I think of the midwives, I am reminded strongly that I should never diminish or discount the simple acts of our ordinary life.

Dr. Marina Hofman:

As a parent, I just keep trying my hardest to be Christ and to bear the fruits of the spirit in her little three-year-old life, and I know if I keep doing that in a thousand little mundane ways, she will grow up to be a godly woman who loves the Lord, and that will be incredible. That will be miraculous and extraordinary, but it will be accomplished through the mundane.

Dr. Marina Hofman:

In my career, I’m a teacher. Again, lots of challenges to being a teacher, but also a sense of the mundane, teaching the same thing semester after semester. But if I do that in faithful obedience to God and I spend every day, no matter how mundane or repetitive my job, to trust God, and to speak His words of life in my students, we all know that that can change lives because we all have a teacher in our own history that made such a difference in our lives, so again, I walk away from this saying “No matter what threat I have, from government or any other force, I can keep doing God’s mission in my life and the big and small ways, day by day, and God Himself will do the extraordinary through my obedience.”

Daniel Markin:

Mm-hmm (affirmative). What you’re speaking to is this idea that the Lord helps us overcome challenges. One of the women who faces enormous challenges in the Scriptures is Hannah. I know that you’ve listed that as one of the stories that you associate with, and so I’d love to hear just how’s that story meaningful to you, the story of Hannah, and who was Hannah.

Dr. Marina Hofman:

Daniel, I’m so glad you asked. It is meaningful to me. Actually, my daughter’s middle name is Hannah, so that indicates to you how much my heart has been encouraged by her story. Here, she’s a woman who seems to have a good husband, but she is also in a sense of aloneness. She wants to have a child and there seems to be just no way forward for her. She brings her situation to God. Again, this beautiful picture, just like we talked about earlier with Hagar and the Lord, here, we have Hannah and the Lord. She’s pouring out her heart asking God to do the impossible within her. What a beautiful lesson from the start, just we can have the freedom to bring all of our pain exactly as it is to God, and then she prays and petitions God for this child.

Dr. Marina Hofman:

Then Daniel, this beautiful verse. It says, “Then she got up and she ate and she went on her way and her face was no longer downcast.” How incredible, because there’s no chance of her having a child as she finishes her prayer, and yet by faith, before God could possibly have answered her prayer, she walks forward and trusts in faith in God. I clung to her example many times, many nights when I struggled with infertility, begging and longing for a child, and yet I said, “You know what? I can have this pain at the same time as trusting God, at the same time as not being downcast.” It’s hard, right? Of course, Hannah still had pain and grief, but we can strive to be people who trust God and hold our head up, even in the midst of prayer and grief.

Daniel Markin:

Wow. Yeah, absolutely, we can. It’s an inspiring story. I just think, yeah, it’s like we look at the Scriptures, we forget that there’s so many practical stories to the practicality of our life and I think it actually, it’s one of the reasons I love the Bible is it actually speaks to so many different areas of life and offers a lot of wisdom. I think there’s a profound difference between someone having intellect and someone having wisdom. I think you can read a lot of books and develop a lot of intellect, but I think letting the stories of Scripture soak into you, and actually allowing God, I think, I believe as Christians, God downloads wisdom to us, right, in the same way that you download an app, I think that the same way God brings wisdom upon us, and we actually, one of the ways that we can download that is through reading the Scriptures and the Holy Spirit revealing that to us. I think it’s an amazing, amazing thing.

Daniel Markin:

You put a lot of these stories together in a book. I want to hear a little bit about how that book came about and what the book is useful for, not that the book isn’t useful, but this idea that, I mean, you wrote this book and formatted it in such a way that I think it’ll be helpful for our listeners who are thinking about small groups.

Dr. Marina Hofman:

Yeah, there’s such a need right now. I hear all the time people want to read the Bible and they want to relate it to their lives, but it’s hard. It’s hard to know how our lives can be encouraged by these examples of women, so I am blessed with lifelong study on these women. I thought, “I want to make this accessible to the young people that are part of my world,” so I created a personal devotional at first, and then there was such a need for a small group, so I said, “Okay, let me add to this personal devotional,” so we have free videos on my website to start off each of the eight weeks, very simply.

Dr. Marina Hofman:

After the video, which introduces the topic, the book provides an icebreaker question, some background context to help put that story in the broader sense of Bible history, and then we just go through the passage verse by verse with really pointed questions that will help give your group great discussion and get the ball rolling. Then it ends with a time of prayer. If your leader is nervous, it doesn’t matter. I’ve even included a closing prayer in the book, so I really wanted to make sure that the format was easily adaptable, but if a person is intimidated, they can follow the simple format. All they need to do is get some friends, and Daniel, it doesn’t hurt to have a bit of food.

Daniel Markin:

Oh, yeah.

Dr. Marina Hofman:

Fellowship and food, right?

Daniel Markin:

Absolutely.

Dr. Marina Hofman:

Get some friends, get a little bit of food. It always goes over. Especially for women, keep in mind that women, I think, love to talk. It doesn’t take much to get it going, so if you can have the confidence to simply invite eight or 10 women to gather, whether on Zoom or in your home, God will do the rest. This Bible study will make it really easy for you without even needing to do homework as well, so I hope it really fits a lot of the lifestyles of our listeners today.

Daniel Markin:

Mm-hmm (affirmative). I mean, I can even think back to my college days and trying to start a Bible study and pieces like that. It is hard to get people together and then it’s difficult to sometimes, but you show up to it, but all of a sudden, you just don’t want to be the person who says the wrong thing, and it can often be a lot of awkward silence. What were some of the things that you would encourage those who are looking to lead a group? Because obviously, you work with college students, you’re seeing them all the time, and maybe there’s some insights you could offer in this, but what are some things that help? Obviously, food’s huge.

Daniel Markin:

I remember I was an RA, right, a resident assistant in the dorm, so I oversaw a floor. The only way I could get people to my events was food, right? I’m like, “Hey, I’m throwing this movie night tonight.” Everyone’s like, “Great.” I’m like, “There’ll be pizza.” Then they all would show up, right, because they wanted to have pizza, and then they end up having a great time, which, one, is essential, food is essential, but beyond the food, food that we need to be eating as believers actually is community and being together in community. I’m often saying that on this podcast and this radio show that we’re created for community. That is so essential for us to be with one another, and so again, I just want to affirm what you’re saying with getting together with people and studying and just being together is step one. That’s huge. Then I think tools like what you’re offering help people to actually study together and study well.

Daniel Markin:

Now, here’s a question, because you mentioned it’s easy for women to get together and talk, right, and be able to share and open up. Not so easy with guys. Oftentimes, guys sit around and they like to make jokes and then we don’t like to talk a ton. What would you encourage those who are looking to lead a Bible study and it’s a bunch of dudes, right? What are some things that you’ve seen done well?

Dr. Marina Hofman:

Well, I think the biggest pushback I get amongst my students is that no one really wants to lead. It’s so intimidating and they just don’t have the confidence to do it, so I say instead of thinking of yourself as a small group leader, just think of yourself as hosting some friends and it’s easy to get food and just see the whole event as a communal event.

Dr. Marina Hofman:

You can count on your friends. They’re probably as nervous as you just to be there, so really, just take the bold step to gather people together and trust that God will be present and that even if it’s a little bit awkward at the beginning, you can break free from a world where people sit beside each other and text and you can develop the skill to look a person in the eye. It is intimidating, so maybe practice. Maybe it sounds silly to you, Daniel, but the first thing I do every semester is I get my students to do what I call “chit-chat.” I feel like it’s a bit of a Canadian word, so I like to bring that down to the South.

Daniel Markin:

Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Dr. Marina Hofman:

Let’s chit-chat and we do a little silly role play in front of the class. Whoever has been the loudest, I figure they’re a bit outgoing, it’s okay if I pick on them. How do you start it off? “Hey, Daniel. My name’s Marina. Hey, what class were you in? Oh, that sounds interesting. Where are you from?” If it needs to be, write down three or four little chit-chat questions that you can ask the people in your small group, and once you asked two or three questions, you know what? They’re as nervous as you, but you broke the ice and God will start to work and bring you all together. But even so, if that’s too intimidating, all you have to do for my small group is say, “Hey, guys, let’s start,” and press play on your TV, start the video, and I’ve done all the work for you in a little six-minute video.

Daniel Markin:

Yeah, yeah, because it’s like there’ll be the teaching in that and stuff, so that actually takes a lot of the pressure off. It’s like, if the leader doesn’t want to say anything, they just press play, and then…

Dr. Marina Hofman:

Yeah.

Daniel Markin:

But yeah, you’re right, it’s just, we need someone who can facilitate that. One of my favorite icebreakers, since we’re talking about icebreakers, is we call it the name game. You go around the group and you ask everybody for their first name and then they have to come up with an alliteration for their name, right? Then with that, you pick a theme, right? I remember we were going around and we’re saying, “Okay, come up with alliteration for your name and it’s based on a movie.” You just do silly things like that and it’s fun to build community in that sense.

Daniel Markin:

I guess as we’re coming in here for a landing here on this program, we’ve talked about women in the Bible and just various ways to be able to lead a Bible study. Community is essential, it’s so important. Where can your resource be found for, especially I’m thinking women who would find this really, really valuable, where can they find this resource, and where can they begin to lead this? What do they need to know?

Dr. Marina Hofman:

Well, it’s called Women in the Bible Small Group Bible Study. It’s an eight-week look at the stories of women in the Bible to study their leadership, courage, and strength as they overcome many of the same challenges we have today and set a great example for us to encourage and inspire us in our desire to follow God as well. They can get the book from bookstores across Canada. It’s about 13, 14 bucks, or on Amazon, whatever they prefer. They can visit my website and check out the free videos. I think that’ll help a lot because the book is really strongly connected to the Bible, but in the videos, I took a lot of liberty to share from my heart, to share my story, to relate the women to my own life, as I’ve done on your show. They can get those videos at womeninthebible.info. That’s a great start.

Dr. Marina Hofman:

Some women, they just might not want to lead a group at all. To that end, I list off an upcoming group that they can join on Zoom, brought together women across Canada, it’s free, so they can always look to join another group if they really don’t want to lead as well. But whatever they do, just dive into Scripture because we need these models of women in our life. We need to be encouraged to know that other women have faced the same struggles with us, and they had a hard time, they suffered, but they emerged strong in Christ and God was with them and God made a way and God watched out for them. Women and men today in Canada, we need this message because it’s God’s message to us as well, that as we face challenges, God will be with us, God will give us the strength to overcome, and our story will be marked by God’s faithfulness.

Daniel Markin:

Amazing. Well, thank you, Marina, for being on the program again and joining us. We look forward to being able to speak in the future and thank you for, yeah, just your time. We look forward to getting that resource in people’s hands and getting people back into community.

Dr. Marina Hofman:

Thank you. Also, if any of your listeners want to connect with me, just send them to womeninthebible.info. I’d love to connect there or on Instagram.

Daniel Markin:

Marina, thank you. Thank you for your time.

Dr. Marina Hofman:

Well, thank you, Daniel.

Daniel Markin:

Thank you again, Marina, for your time. We look forward to seeing how this resource impacts other people. If you end up picking up this resource and it’s super helpful, make sure to send Marina a note. If you have any questions while you’re going through her book, definitely reach out to her. I’m sure she’d want to help you. It’s essential that we are spending time in community, and so I want to encourage you all to try and get in a Bible study. If you’re in college or you’re at your workplace, try and start something. This is an easy way for you to do that to start building community. Thanks again for listening. All the best.

Speaker 1:

Thanks so much for listening. If you want to hear more, subscribe on iTunes or Spotify or visit us online at indoubt.ca or indoubt.com. We’re also on social media, so make sure to follow us on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter.

Daniel Markin:

Indoubt is a ministry of Good News Global Media designed to speak into faith, life, and culture. These are challenging conversations for young men and women who have chosen lives for Jesus, while at the same time, are constantly engaged by the culture and philosophies of the world around them. It causes us to ask about the relevance of the Bible, how to engage our world, how to share the gospel, and perhaps the most difficult question: How does the young follower of Jesus live a holy life? Join us each week as we dig deep into faith, life, and culture. For more information about indoubt, or to offer a gift of support to this young adult ministry, visit indoubt.ca or call 1-844-663-2424. Thanks.