Ep. 175: Use Your Influence

Kourtney Cromwell:
Welcome to the indoubt Podcast, where we explore the challenging topics that young adults often face. Each week we talk with guests who help answer questions of faith, life, and culture, connecting them to our daily experiences and God’s Word. For more info on indoubt visit indoubt.ca or indoubt.com.

Ryan McCurdy:
Today’s episode is exciting. We have somebody who is local to where I am. His name is Jon Wiebe and his Instagram is @theroadtodapper. He’s a young influencer on social media who’s specifically targeting young men and how they dress, which is awesome. He’s been a pastor for a number of years. He also works in the marketplace at Starbucks. And he’s a wedding officiant. And so we get to hear a little bit from Jon and how his work is kind of at the crosshairs of ministry and the marketplace. And this is an important conversation because many of us will not be in full-time pastoral ministry or full-time ministry of some sort where we’re employed by a church. But still, God’s call and mission for us to go and make disciples is true for all of us. And so this is a beautiful story of hearing Jon and his walk with God and how God has stretched him in various different areas. So in this episode, we take a look at Jon’s personal story and how he came to faith, but also how Jon uses social media for good, so take a listen.

Ryan McCurdy:
Okay. So today, we have Jon Wiebe, who’s a pastor, a Starbucks barista, and also a father of two, a married man, and he’s also a social media influencer. Jon, it’s so great to have you.

Jon Wiebe:
It’s really great to be here, Ryan. Also, I am also a wedding officiant.

Ryan McCurdy:
Okay. With a company, or with a group?

Jon Wiebe:
With a company here in Lower Mainland B.C., called, Young, Hip & Married. And they’re actually not just here in the Lower Mainland. They’re across Canada.

Ryan McCurdy:
They’re all over the place.

Jon Wiebe:
But it started here.

Ryan McCurdy:
Yeah. That’s awesome. So you’re officiating weddings all the time?

Jon Wiebe:
Yeah, I do about 15 to 20 a year.

Ryan McCurdy:
Wow, that’s intense. You do a lot.

Jon Wiebe:
Yeah. I have a lot on the go. My wife always jokingly says that she has diagnosed me with adult ADHD. And so a bunch of little part-time things fill up my week that make more than full time. But I like every day having multiple things on the go. And it keeps my rabbit-like brain to like, “Oh, what’s this? Oh, what’s that? Oh, what’s that?”

Ryan McCurdy:
Yeah. Always something to do. That’s awesome.
So, Jon, tell us a little bit about you. What’s your background? How did you get to where you are now? And what got you to this point? And maybe what’s some of your faith journey?

Jon Wiebe:
Yeah. Well, I grew up here, in Abbotsford, kind of born and raised, on the playground is where I spent most of my days. Nice Fresh Prince reference for those of you, if you’re too young to know. Yeah, so I grew up in a Christian home, went to Christian school. And to make a really long story short, in high school on a mission’s trip felt like God was really calling me into ministry, and at that time specifically in youth ministry. So, jumped in, as a grade 11 student, into helping at my church in the youth group. Ended up graduating and kind of changing my career path. At that point, I was going in to be an architect. Changed that to wanting to being in ministry. I went to Columbia Bible College here in Abbotsford. Graduated with youth work degree. And within two months after graduation, I had a full-time youth pastor job at my home church, which was the dream for me. And I was there for about just over nine years as Youth and Young Adults Pastor. And I had resigned in 2014, really feeling that God was calling us to plant a church here in Abbotsford.
And so in the interim, I had a mortgage. As you said, I have two kids and a wonderful wife and we need to pay the bills. And so in the interim, in between when our church kind of got up and running, I found a job at Starbucks. And then, as our church kind of got off the ground, I was working at the Starbucks right in the neighbourhood where our church was planted. And so I decided to stay on and do part-time Starbucks, part-time pastoring, which ended up being part-time Starbucks, full-time pastoring but really seeing it as a ministry opportunity. And part of my own journey and my career journey is realizing that I think that God has wired me to be bi-vocational, tri-vocational, that doing one thing exclusively isn’t necessarily what he’s wired me to do.
And even my understanding of what ministry looked like had changed and developed, that I didn’t need to be a full-time pastor getting a full-time paycheck from a church to be a pastor and to be in ministry and ministering to those around me, that even when I was at Starbucks, in everything that I did, I could be a minister. I could be a pastor, even if my job title didn’t say that. So that’s kind of where I’ve gotten now today.
Our church plant, after a number of years, has transitioned to join up with another church in the area, out in Fort Langley, Fraser Point Church. So I just joined staff with them. This is a more recent change for us in the last couple months. But again in a part-time role there and continuing on with all the other things that I do.
In terms of the social media influencer, which I think we’ll get to, that kind of all just fell into my lap as a hobby that I started, that all of the sudden, I guess I struck a felt need and resonated with an audience in what I was providing. And so it kind of took off from there to where now it’s something that I use as income, as a job.

Ryan McCurdy:
Oh, cool. There’s a lot that you have your hands in, a lot of different pools that you’re involved in. And I think that’s a cool thing. And I’d even be curious, you mentioned you were at that one church after Bible college, right away for nine years, and then was it after that you were invited to plant a church, or you wanted to plant a church? Is that when that happened? Or was this a plant from the church that you were with in the beginning? How did that all kind of work out?

Jon Wiebe:
Yeah. So it was the end of my time at South Abbotsford, which has been my home church since birth. I think probably the Sunday after I was born, we were in church. So I didn’t really know a lot else. But it was a church that I loved in a city that I loved. But really, felt like God was calling us to plant a church. And I think as I look back now in our journey, what I feel like God was calling us to, planting the church was the venue. But the avenue that I think he called us to in that season, but it was to reach unchurched people and to lead people to Jesus. I love being on the frontlines of evangelism. That’s why I think I love being in the marketplace so much, is I get to be with everyday people, not just surrounded by Christians and church people. But I get to be with just everyday people and learn their struggles and try to weave my own faith journey in to hopefully lead people to Jesus.
And so it was 2012 when I really felt God calling us to say, “Hey, maybe I’m calling you to something else.” I always thought I would be a youth pastor til I died or retired, or till God said otherwise. And so he was saying otherwise. And so we processed with our church. And so we were blessed and kind of sent out from our church with a local church planting network.

Ryan McCurdy:
I think all of that, what you’re saying is sweet. The thing that sticks out to me the most is just it’s this beautiful picture of ministry is not just limited to the church. I think there’s so many times where so many individuals would say, “Oh, ministry is for the pastors. So let’s just let the pastors do the pastoring, and all the rest of us get off the hook.” And that’s not the true nature of the culture of the church.
We’re all called to be a priesthood, right, a holy nation. We’re all invited to this work of ministry. If you’re a Christian, you’re invited to the work of ministry. And that means for those who are maybe in full-time pastoring roles or full-time missionaries, or whatever. But also for the person who works at Starbucks or the person who works in a factory. You know what I mean? The marketplace is a place to pastor and minister to some people.

Jon Wiebe:
But if you look at even the example of Paul, he was a tent maker, didn’t take money for his role, had a full-time career as a tent maker, but then also planted all these churches. And he says that the pastors or preachers, our role is to equip the saints to do the work of the ministry. And so it’s been a shift, I think in church culture, in pastoral culture but especially for me that everybody, the saints, the people of the church, they’re the ones that are supposed to be equipped to actually do the work. And it’s not all left up to a chosen few or people who sign up on this crazy journey of being a pastor to actually do the work and be the ministers. It’s actually everybody.
That’s not something that I grew up – I’m in my mid-30s. Growing up in church and at youth group, when I felt called into the ministry, the only option that was kind of presented was, “Okay, well, now you’re either going to be a missionary and go outside of your community. Or you’re going to be a pastor, and you can stay in your community.” And those were the two options if you felt that God was calling you to some sort of ministry role. And I think now, at least I’m hoping to try to change that to say, “You know what? Wherever you are, whether you are serving coffee, whether you own your own business, you have an opportunity to influence and to be a pastor, and to be a minister.”
One of the things I love the most about being an officiant and we work with a lot of couples who are unchurched. That’s kind of the niche that our organization holds, it’s for people who don’t want a justice of the peace. They want a personalized custom experience but don’t know a pastor. They don’t go to church. They stopped going to church. They don’t have a relationship with a pastor or a religious figure. And so we fit that niche of saying, “Hey, well, we are pastors. And we’ll create a ceremony for you.” But we become their pastor, their go-to. And years later, that couple going through crisis, or a family member or someone who was at that wedding, will be going through a crisis and be like, “We need a pastor. The only pastor that we know, the only religious person that we know is that officiant from 10 years ago. Let’s email him, or let’s try to get a hold of him because that’s the only connection we have.” So pretty wide-open are opportunities to minister.

Ryan McCurdy:
Yeah. It’s a cool invitation. And so I’m curious, Jon. Your story with this, and how you’ve kind of, you started in ministry, you’re still in ministry. But it’s kind of like what you said. You’ve got hands in multiple different avenues. How have you seen this play out in your life, especially when it relates to social media? Because you’ve spent time in social media like you said. You’ve got thousands of followers. And you’ve kind of seen this audience that’s kind of connected with some of the stuff that you’re putting out. And so my question is, how is that an opportunity for you, even just to support your family, one, but two, to direct and help people see God?

Jon Wiebe:
Yeah, it’s been an interesting journey on this, the whole social media influencer scene. And it seems like every day, there’s new influencers popping up. And social media has kind of taken over a lot of our lives. And for me, when I started seeing on TV commercials when I saw big brands advertising their Facebook URL, and their Facebook handle, and their Instagram, that was years ago now. But then, I’m like, “Okay. Social media is here to stay. This isn’t some fleeting thing.”
So for me, being on Instagram, for those who are listening, I guess I would be a men’s lifestyle influencer, fashion, style blogger, influencer, content creator, whatever you want to call me. It started out as a hobby. I had some mentors in my life. It was right in the midst of getting ready to launch our church. And church was kind of all-consuming for me. I didn’t have an off switch. And every spare minute of the day, I was doing this. And I had a mentor who asked me the question, “What brings you joy? Or what do you do for fun?” And I was like, “Oh. I don’t ever just stop and smell the roses or such.” And it’s like, “Okay. Well, what do I do for fun? What brings me joy?” And so I liked social media. Obviously, it’s been a part of my story. And at the same time, it was kind of the start of the whole influencer scene. And so I was looking at friends of mine and people that I was following online, other guys who were putting together outfits and looks. And I was benefiting from what they were doing and elevating my own look.
And so then people in my own life, in my real life, were like, “Hey, how did you put that together?” or “Hey, I’m going to a wedding. Can you come help me figure out where to buy a suit?” or “Where can I get a good dress shirt?” or “Where can I buy a tie?” And so I was like, “Okay. Well, I can start doing this.” I’ve got these great guys that I follow. So I started my page and my account. First thing that really drew me in was the community aspect of social media, that I could post something, get instant feedback, and really hear, “Hey, I was inspiring someone.” Or someone was like, “Hey, where did you get that? I want to go find that.” And to be able to have that little bit of community, to be able to comment on other people’s stuff and be like, “Hey, I like how you put that together,” and try to use it as an opportunity to encourage and just support one another, and feel that kind of community even though I’ve got friends around the world that I’ve built on social media who I’ve never met in person and some that I have met in person after meeting online. But it’s a way to build community.

Jon Wiebe:
And from there, it just kind of took off. And something that I was posting obviously resonated or the way that I was sharing. So now it’s been an opportunity and a platform to share. And that’s why I say I’m more lifestyle than just strictly fashion because it’s given me a platform, and I believe that God has given me a platform to share about my life and my struggles, and “Hey, what’s it like?” A lot of my followers are 18 to 24-year-old men. A lot of them aren’t married or don’t have kids. And so it’s a way for me to share even about my life and how do I balance work and life and family, and how are we raising our kids, and what are my own struggles, and what do I go through, and how do I deal with things. And it’s an opportunity to share that.
And then a lot of the influencer scene, at least locally, there’s a lot of events that I get invited to, product launches or different events at restaurants or restaurant openings. So there’s quite a community even here in Abbotsford or in Vancouver, in the influencer, content creator scene. So it’s given me an opportunity to be a light and to be able to share Jesus. I’m not ashamed of my faith. I don’t hide it on my page. I do talk about it, about being a pastor. I talk about my faith. And it gives me an opportunity. And I’ve had conversations about faith and spirituality with other influencers out there, whether that’s online, or whether that’s in person because they know I’m a pastor influencer.

Ryan McCurdy:
Right, that’s so cool. That’s pretty funny. I think there’s a lot of good in that. So often, I think in the church, there can be times where people are like, “Oh.” Especially kind of the old guard, the older generation is like, “All social media is from the devil.” The reality is fundamentally, well, as far as I can tell, it’s not, right. It’s not necessarily like that, right.

Jon Wiebe:
And I don’t think it is either.

Ryan McCurdy:
And I think, fundamentally, it’s one of many things where is the platform itself the problem? Or is it the abuse that you’ve seen with the platform, right? Money, in essence, is actually not evil. How we use money can be evil. And how we use money can be good. So similarly, with social media, I think it’s a tool. It’s a resource. And it can be used for good. Or it can be used for ill. And you’ve just shared some of the good of social media that you’ve experienced, community, connection, all of these things, and how you’ve been able to use that in your story and to share some of your faith.
Are there any parts to social media that you’re like, “Maybe it can be harmful to individuals, or it can be harmful to culture, or it can be harmful to people”? Yeah. What are your thoughts on that?

Jon Wiebe:
It’s interesting even the timing of when we’re recording this and what’s kind of going on, not only in my own life. But the church that I’m a part of, we’re just in the midst of a series. The church I’m a part of is a North Point Strategic partner church. And so a lot of the times a lot of our series are from Andy Stanley. So we’re right in the middle of the series called, What Makes You Happy. And so it’s kind of fitting a lot of what I’ve been learning and what Andy’s been teaching. It fits right along with this. And we just had this. On Sunday, was the sermon on money, Can Money Buy You Happiness. And I think often we say, “Money can’t buy you happiness.” What I really appreciated about what Andy said, is actually, there is a correlation between money and happiness. It’s not necessarily the abundance of money that brings happiness because if you look at super wealthy people, they still struggle. They’re not necessarily always happy. But it’s how you manage your money that will bring you happiness.
And so I think the same is with social media. Social media in itself isn’t wrong or evil. Obviously, there’s no verse in the Bible where Jesus talks about social media. But I think it’s how you manage it and how you let it affect you. One of the things that Andy was talking about in the message was saying how awareness brings discontent. And that’s what he’s been talking about in this series. In your happiness, the more you’re aware of what you don’t have or what others have, the less you are content with what you have. And so I think as I look at social media, that’s the biggest red flag for me. Or the biggest negative is that we become aware. When you hear the phrase, “Keeping up with the Joneses.” It was easier back, 10, 20, 30 years ago when the Joneses literally were the Joneses next door. And generally, their house was probably a similar size of yours.

Ryan McCurdy:
Just a little nicer.

Jon Wiebe:
A little nicer maybe on the inside. But you lived in the same neighbourhood. So it couldn’t have been a mega-mansion beside you. But now, with social media, I know what my best friend had for breakfast yesterday, down to I know what reno they just did on their house. And not only that, the construction company in our town, that my friend runs, I know what reno’s and what builds he’s doing. So I know how my 1990s kitchen doesn’t compare to the reno our friends just did. And that awareness of what I don’t have can bring that discontentment. On the same lines, the whole comparison trap of saying, “That family looks perfect. That person has the perfect body. That person has a sweet car, a sick ride. What am I driving? What am I wearing? What do I look like when I look at myself in the mirror?” I think we run the risk of allowing other people’s social media feeds to be our mirror and not actually looking at ourselves, or even the way that God sees us, which I think is the most important, let alone what we see in the mirror. It’s what God sees in the mirror. And we have allowed other people’s social media feeds to be the mirror of what we should be like.

Ryan McCurdy:
Yeah. And that comparison game can be really tricky. Man looks at the outward appearance, but God looks at the heart. And it’s hard to measure character on Instagram. You can’t. It’s really difficult, right? Instagram is a place where the external faces, and I don’t want to use the word façade because it’s not all façade, but some of it can be façade, so the external, what people see is out there. But when we look at a scriptural perspective, God’s concern is for the heart. And so what I’m trying to say is that the deeper issue of our walk with God is of God’s greatest concern. And there are times where things like social media or just the way we are in our schools or in our workplaces, where we can be so concerned with the comparison game and the external pieces. And it actually pulls us away from the things that God’s concerned about. And so I resonate with what you’re saying. And I probably agree with you that that would be one of the biggest red flags, just that the comparison game can be toxic. And it can be really a vice.

Jon Wiebe:
Yeah. I think you hit the nail on the head with the whole potential for façade and the way that God looks at not necessarily what we put forth on our Instagram, but who we are. What is our character? How are we actually living our lives? What does our heart look like? What’s going on in our mind? That’s way more significant than what we put forth out to be external. And it’s interesting following people or knowing people, other social media influencers or content creators, and then actually meeting them in real life at events that we’re at and being like, “Oh, you are nothing like what you put forth. You just aren’t the same person. Who am I actually meeting?” I had coffee yesterday with another influencer from Vancouver. And one of the things I said to her was, I said, “Not very many people can I say, but you are, from the first time I met you, you are who you portray online.” And that’s so rare, or seemingly rare in the influencer world.

Ryan McCurdy:
Yeah, it can be. Yeah.

Jon Wiebe:
Lot’s of people don’t know you can buy followers. You can buy comments. You can buy likes. You can buy everything. And so it’s easy to put forth a façade of like, “Look at me. I’m now at 500,000 followers. And each of my photos are getting a million likes. And I’m growing by this amount.” And it’s like, “Well, you can pay for all that.” So it’s like that external façade that you put forth is, I think for a lot of people are coming from a place of potential emptiness or feeling like they’re not enough and needing to keep up with others. And so you start to do shady things like buying your influence and not being able to be authentically you with who you are.

Ryan McCurdy:
Yeah. And even in this conversation today, you made a comment where you said when you started getting into social media more and more and you started to realize that you could put an outfit together and post it online, and people would be encouraged by that and be like, “Hey.” You made a comment. I don’t know if you did it on purpose or not. But you said, “People in my real life were asking me for, ‘Hey, help me dress for a wedding that I’m going to, or hey where did you get that shirt?'” And it’s funny because there is this implicit, underneath the surface, kind of like, “Oh, yeah. That’s my social media, and then this is my real life.” And I have to be honest with you. I don’t know how to blend the two. I used to have Instagram. And I used to go on it quite a bit. And it’s a hard walk to balance because for me at least, there’s that tension of, “Is what I’m portraying really who I am?” And if it’s not, then that’s a scary rabbit hole to kind of get sucked into.
And so I admire the folks who can be transparent and real, and when you meet them on the street they’re the same as they are online. And I think that is what it means to be somebody who has integrity, right? Behind closed doors, you’re the same as you are on the surface. And our culture, a lot of young adults today don’t get that.

Jon Wiebe:
Yeah, I said real life. When I started my Instagram, I was anonymous. And so I didn’t have my name on it. I didn’t show my face for the first good while, maybe six months where it was just anonymous. I don’t know if I consciously thought this or whether it was just that same stuff that I was wrestling with, with, “Okay. Well, now if I’ve got a platform, this is now an opportunity for me to actually share about my life, about my faith.” And wrestling with, “Okay. Where do I want to take this now?” Being like, “Okay. Well, I’m going to introduce myself to now my followers and be like, ‘This is actually who I am. This is my face. This is my story.'” And so that’s actually allowed me to blend the two. And there’s still some people out there, some other influencers, that I’m friends with who I know who they are and what they look like. But they try to be super anonymous on their feed. Not that they don’t want to share their life. But they’re trying to be inspirational and aspirational and saying that anyone can see themselves wearing and doing what they’re doing and being more aspirational that way.
For me, I wanted to try and blend that together. Some of the time, I forget that I blended it. And then, I’m like, “Oh, yeah. This account, I’m actually a real person.” The other day, I was in Downtown Vancouver, walking across West 4th. And then a couple hours later I saw I had a message in my message request on Instagram, someone being like, “Were you just walking across West 4th? I just saw you. And nice to e-meet you.” It’s someone random, someone, who randomly follows me. And it’s like, “Oh, right, yep.” But it’s that reminder of being like, “Oh, right. I’ve made a conscious choice to blend my life with social media.” And it’s not just about what I portray online. And I don’t want to be one of those people that when someone meets me, they’re like, “Oh, you seem way more exciting, or way better online than you do in real life or when I meet you in person.”

Ryan McCurdy:
Even in all of this, as we’ve been talking about social media and the effects and the good that can come from it, there’s obviously a dark side. And Jon, even as you’ve expressed a little bit of your own walk with being an influencer in social media and how you’ve seen the use of social media for good, also sometimes there’s a side to social media that can kind of eat away. And so this has been awesome to be able to talk about a bit of your story, for us to get to know you, but also, to hear about how you’re doing with social media, and how God’s using you in the various avenues through which you’re working because you’re involved in so many. So Jon thanks so much for being with us.

Jon Wiebe:
Thanks for having me.

Ryan McCurdy:
Honestly, it’s a joy. You’re somebody who on social media, and in person, I’m like, “This guy’s the real deal.”

Jon Wiebe:
Awesome.

Ryan McCurdy:
Thanks for joining us on this episode of indoubt with Jon Wiebe who’s a pastor and Starbucks barista and wedding officiant and social media influencer. He’s got his hands in a lot of different pools. And he’s influencing in the world for God’s glory. I want to encourage you also can do, with whatever sphere you’re in, do the same thing. You can follow Jon Wiebe on Instagram @theroadtodapper. And you can connect with him there.
And if indoubt has encouraged you, I want to encourage you to be part of what we’re doing. Stay connected with us. Download our app, and connect with us on social media. It’s been such a joy having you on this week and having Jon. And in fact, next week, we’re going to have part two with Jon Wiebe as we look a little bit more into the dark side of some of social media and what it can expose as we talk about his story with his walk with mental health. So make sure you tune in next week for that.

Kourtney Cromwell:
Thanks so much for listening. If you want to hear more, subscribe on iTunes and Spotify or visit us online at indoubt.ca or indoubt.com. We’re also on social media, so make sure to follow us on Instagram, Facebook and Twitter.